Why doesn't court ordered attendance to AA meetings violate AA guidelines?

Question

For the court to give someone a card to be signed by the leader of the AA meeting allies the AA meeting with the court doesn't it? At that point, the meeting leader is helping enforce a court ruling. That violates the 12 traditions does it not?

4.Each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other groups or A.A. as a whole.

6.An A.A. group ought never endorse, finance, or lend the A.A. name to any related facility or outside enterprise, lest problems of money, property, and prestige divert us from our primary purpose.

10.Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the A.A. name ought never be drawn into public controversy.


I think it's harmful to those who are there because they honestly want help from other alcoholics. If the court wants a treatment program, they need to make their own.

If someone could please explain why this is allowed by AA?

Answer 1

When a chairperson of an AA meeting, or one of the group members sign an attendance sheet for someone who is court-ordered, it doesn't violate any of AA's traditions. An AA group or member is not acting as an officer of the court when a person brings in an attendance sheet to be signed. Whatever transpires between the court and the person who is court-ordered to attend AA meetings and get proof is just that: between the court and that person. By signing the sheet, the meeting chairperson or member is simply doing a favor for the person in need. No endorsement of the court or the conditions set down by the court are being honored.



You listed Traditions 4, 6, and 10 as being affected. I will try to answer your questions as best I can by addressing each Tradition individually.



Tradition 4 is not affected because signing the attendance sheet is a voluntary act on the part of the chairperson or the group member. And signing the sheet does not affect another group or AA as a whole. Since groups are autonomous, a group can elect to not sign any type of paperwork. I know this because I have attended groups that--through their group conscience--have decided not to become involved. Most groups I have attended over the years don't mind helping another AA'er or even someone who is simply there because the court said they had to be there. No distinction is made. Everyone is equal in AA.



Tradition 6 does not come into play because there is no endorsement of anyone's drug rehabilitation program (private or public/legal). Nor is there favor being shown a particular court. Signing the attendance sheet is just that: a confirmation of that person's being at that particular meeting. Also, when the group chairperson or member elects to sign the sheet, there is no chance of monetary gain, property issues, or prestige connected to it. An AA member cannot even accept money or reimbursement if they elect to help get court-ordered persons to and from AA meetings. No endorsement or distinction is made for AA meetings held in correctional facilities, either. I know this personally because I am certified to help bring meetings into prisons and jails.

And I feel the main reason that courts don't have their own treatment programs is because they have found that AA works the best and it is FREE. As Tradition 3 states: "The ONLY requirement for AA membership is a desire to stop drinking." Almost ALL treatment programs are based on the 12 Steps of AA, and almost all of them end up trying to get the person in treatment involved in AA, NA, or CA when they leave treatment or as part of an aftercare program. Now, if AA welcomes these people with open arms while they are in treatment and after finishing treatment start coming to meetings, is that an endorsement of that particular treatment program? I think not.



Tradition 10 is especially not brought to bear because signing the sheet is not offering an opinion or endorsement, only (as a favor to that person) confirmation. I have yet to see any type of public controversy over this issue. If, for some extremely off-the-wall or bizzare reason, an officer of the court were to contact that particular meeting's chairperson or a member to ask ANY question relating to the court-ordered person in question, then Tradition 12 DOES apply. Anonymity is or should be foremost and applies to everyone and questions like that should never be entertained or even considered by anyone in AA. If a P.O. wants to really know if the person in question is attending meetings, then they need to come to the meetings themselves. I personally have chaired 10's of 100's of meetings over the years and NO outside controversy has ever arisen over attendance sheets. I have also been on the other end, taking my court-ordered sheet into each meeting and getting it signed with my head hung low and my ego at my feet. I felt at first that it was in some way harmful to me, but after awhile I realized that--for me at least--it was an opportunity to grow. I felt very exposed standing in line waiting my turn to get my sheet signed like I was being singled out. I finally realized that it was my ego and false pride that was getting in the way. Being humbled like that was just what the doctor ordered for me at that time early in my sobriety. I was angry and looking for ANYTHING to divert me from the true reason I was there: I have a problem with alcohol. Believe me, getting my sheet signed was the least of my worries at that time.



A couple more things to think about: most courts and ALL of AA realize that signing attendance sheets is a courtesy on the part of that individual AA member and they are in no way bound by their signature. It is considered 12th Step work by myself personally and many, if not most, enlightened AA members. Also, I have heard of cases where the court-ordered person was simply asked questions by a P.O. who was either familiar with or a member of AA about the meetin

Answer 2

1

Answer 3

No,because AA is a religious cult, where often members are mistreated. mandating people to AA, is coercion and a violation of the separation of Church and State. The other issue is that one of AA's principles is Anonymity, and AA violates its own principle by reporting attendance information.I think you are very brave by asking this question because you are creating knowledge designed to liberate people and give them choice. Many AA/NA groups also prohibit members from taking psychotropic medications, when prescribed by a physician. This is particularly cruel and dangerous. However secular alternatives do exist they are as follows The Secular organization for Sobriety (SOS of which I am a Board Member), Rational Recovery, which is based on the Cognitive Behavioral treatment designed by Albert Ellis,Women for Sobriety, and Life Ring Secular Recovery. Courts could refer people to these organizations, but because of bias they don't. In addition AA has managed to spread throughout the country which facilitates attendance

Answer 4

Can't. It does violate them. This is a wonderful example of how AA and its members say one thing and do another. Mandated AA violates the law and AA traditions, yet it continues.



The one that you left out is the 11th tradition of "attraction rather than promotion". One would think that would include coercive recruiting and deceptive recruiting techniques.



Member like to spin it, say that it is the big, bad courts forcing these people on them; nothing could be further from the truth, AA has a pamphlet, "Cooperating with Court, D.W.I. and Similar Programs":

http://www.aa.org/en_pdfs/mg-05_coopwithcourt.pdf

...that talks about how to approach judges to have him sentence people to AA.



AA needs the courts to help supply them with fresh meat. More than half of all new members are mandated by the courts, government agencies, or employee assistance programs. Ever since several of the higher courts declared AA to be "religious in nature" and that court mandated AA to be a violation of the Establishment Clause, AA in the US has been losing membership. It was a gradual loss before the Ninth Federal District, I'm waiting to see the impact that one has.



The courts that have made these rulings so far are:

The New York Court of Appeals.

The Second Federal District Court. (NY, VT, CT)

The Seventh Federal District Court. (WI, IN, IL)

The Ninth Federal District Court. (MT, ID, WA, OR, NV, CA, AZ, HI, AK)

The Tennessee Supreme Court.



Check out "THE TWELVE TRADITIONS OF A.A., Interpreted":

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-traditions.html

Answer 5

12 Step Meeting Attendance Sheet

Answer 6

AA is a private organization. They can do pretty much what they want. If they feel that helping alcoholics under court orders is beneficial both to the organization and the alcoholics, they can certainly do it.