Does this/any school's zero-tolerance policy trump right to self-defense AND due process?

Question

Consider this article:

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/texas-father-pickets-school-over-son-alleged-bullying-170805410.html

How is it that the state (Texas, in this case) can do this without due process?

How is it that anyone's civil rights (to due process) aren't violated?

Although we are not given too much details, but if we assume only the facts stated in the article, can we assume that the school failed in it's (federal) mandate to prevent bullying? What legal recourse does the family have in this case? Can a civil suit against the bully be a deterrent?

Answer 1

There was no due process because this wasn't a legal matter, it was a school issue, and he wasn't convicted of a crime. (2nd Question) Rights aren't violated because, again, there's no legal process invlolved here. We ARE given quite a bit of factual information, and there is no federal mandate to prevent bullying. Schools have a duty, just as employers do to provide a safe & secure environment. And after hearing that this has been a 3 year process, they've certainly failed to do so. I do see how it is the bully got away with it for 3 years and it takes one incident from the victim here to spark an outrage, this is where we come to an impass of information. Here in texas, we sign an agreement to go to school, in the event of bullying the school has an outlined section in the student handbook to address the issue. If your not satisfied with decisions made, you can of course call the police, or speak with the board. I seriously doubt that the proper courses of action were taken by the father to remedy this situation. I'd bet he complained informally and it never amounted to any action, although the situation is unfortunate, and I sympathise with the victim, I myself being a parent in texas have a responsibility to read the students handbook before I sign it, and I did, so in part I blame the dad for not fixing this 3 years ago.



As for legal recourse, yes he can file a civil suit, and I can see that the damages inflicted are real, and emotional as well as physical. But just as I stated, the defense will bring into question all the proper channels that the father did not follow, and suggest that it was just as much his fault.







Edit: From your own reference on wiki i quote "There are no federal laws dealing directly with school bullying;[3] however, bullying may trigger responsibilities under one or more of the federal anti-discrimination laws enforced by the United States Department of Education’s Office for Civil Rights.[4]"

Answer 2

Pretty much all schools do these days. Common sense has just gone out the window. Don't get me wrong, of course I don't condone kids fighting or bringing drugs or weapons to school. But these asinine rules don't actually prevent any of that from happening. It just hurts students who aren't even doing anything wrong. Because if a kid WANTS to bring a real gun and kill a bunch of people, or is really intent on bringing actual, illegal drugs to school, he's going to do it anyway, whether there is "zero tolerance" or not. Punishing people for having a plastic knife in their lunch doesn't solve the problem at all. The asthma thing is one of the most retarded things I've ever heard. I actually saw a news story about a boy, who I think was only 10 or 11 years old, and he DIED all because the idiotic administrators in his school wouldn't allow him to have his inhaler with him. So he started having an attack, but since he had to run all the way down to the nurse's office, he died before he could make it. I hope those morons are proud of what they did to him. I really suggest that the girl at your school have her parents complain to the school board about that, because that's really dangerous and it would be tragic if she met the same fate as that boy. And I also remember the story of a 10 year old girl who they ARRESTED because she brought a pair of *gasp* scissors to school! She just brought them because she needed them for a project...but the administrators decided that she MUST have intended to massacre the entire school with the little pair of scissors, so they called the cops and had them come arrest the TEN year old. The poor kid got handcuffed and taken to the police station! Once again, all I can say is, these rules are asinine and people are just morons. We might has well just have gorillas running our schools, because they could do a better job than half these administrators we have in schools!

Answer 3

I may be partial as I've worked in the school system for more the 14 years. I've seen and heard both sides of these types of arguments. As it stands we don't know any of the facts. There was an alleged bullying. We don't know if there was bullying for 3 years. Here is one problem. The father is taking actions now because is son was suspended for 2 days and placed in an alternative school so that he won't fall behind in his work. But there is no mentioning of him taking actions for 3 years. If there was bullying it should have been reported then. You can't expect a school to take action if they don't know the problem existed. There would be documentation that the other child was suspected of bullying his son. Also the kids did the wrong thing. He wasn't defending himself. He says he was defending someone else. The proper protocol is to report any suspected cases of bullying. By taking actions into his own hands he didn't allow the school system to effectively resolve the matter according to board policy. There was no due process because this child violated school policies by engaging into a fight. He didn't report this case of bullying. It is doubtful that he reported being the target of bullying himself for 3 years. Every school has an anti-bullying policy. The policy states what is supposed to be done in cases of bullying. It appears right now as if that child was the bully instead of being a victim or coming to the aid of a victim. If the other person was a bully he has now made him appear as if he is now the victim.



We all know it is the 2nd person that normally gets caught. If you have children. One child hit the other child. The other child hits back. You see the 2nd child hitting. Then you scold the child for fighting their sibling. Then that child says he/she hit me first. You the parent will often say why didn't you tell me instead of hitting.



Edit:

Liondancer, I can't speak specifically for your school, but school are often falsely accused of doing nothing. Schools often take some form of action. But they are not allowed by law to discuss with other what were those actions. Sometimes they enter contracts with the accused student and or family. They create action plans. Maybe longer termed suspensions or in-school suspensions. They have hearings. There are going to be times when the student doesn't change their behavior or they only change it for a short period of time. I know of students that had to do community service. But the family of the victims are not aware of this and will say the school did nothing. The court system may determine the punishment. I know students that had to do work or the local jailhouse. I've been asked to have students work for me after school until they completed so many hours or days. This was a punishment but at the same time they were developing skills that could be used later in life. I don't know how many other community businesses or leaders have worked with students. As the law will not allow school or the judicial system speak about judgements of juveniles.

Answer 4

This is an issue that varies from one state to the next and from one school district to the next. I raised several martial artists in our school district and they are under strict instructions to not get into fights unless it is self defense. If they do act in self defense they will have to take the consequences too. If they are willing to take the consequences it is bad enough to warrant self defense. They are also told to only do what is necessary to deal with the situation when the situation arises. Planned fights are not allowed or any other display in front of friends and fellow class mates.

My daughter was the first one in my martial arts school to beat up a school bully and give him a black eye after years of bullying. She was not the only one that got bullied by this kid and it was well known that the kid was a bully. There was no consequences for my daughter and the teachers and principal looked the other way. The bully was too embarrassed to admit he got the black eye from a scrawny looking girl. Interestingly the black eye made such an impression on this guy he stopped bullying and years later he actually turned out not too bad. In this case I really think someone putting him in his place did not only serve my daughter but also the bully. Maybe he actually was looking for some guidelines and someone to tell him 'no' and that it is not ok for him to treat others badly.

Years later another of my female students beat the daylight out of another bully in that same school district. She sort of lost it and went overboard. She took the detention and it was done. No further consequences. Again the school was aware of the bullying.

So you can see while some incidences in our school district carry consequences I think the punishment for getting into fights is reasonable. Annoying as it is that the school will not deal with the bullies and that the students have to deal with it themselves the school will allow the students to defend themselves. It is unfortunate that the right to let kids deal with situations even if they are violent is taken and the bully is allowed to keep the upper hand. Most kids just want the bullying to stop and to be left alone.

Answer 5

Due process is for the courts and justice system. Not in school punishments.



What federal mandate are you speaking of that all American schools in every state are held to for bullying prevention? I obviously missed something that went through Congress.



I do agree the silly concept of "zero" tolerance is asinine. It is ineffective and a cop out for administrators to not handle issues at hand. They just handle them when they blow up. Bullies respond to one thing, force. It is ironic we raise our youth in a military driven society that fights wars for decades on end in the pursuit of peace, but tell our children that violence is wrong and one must turn their back when threatened. While the President spends billions on wars they don't want to declare or end.







Edit-



Did you even read your own wiki link?



"There are no federal laws dealing directly with school bullying;[3] however, bullying may trigger responsibilities under one or more of the federal anti-discrimination laws enforced by the United States Department of Education’s Office for Civil Rights.[4]"



No where does it state the Federal mandate you made up. It clearly states there are NO federal laws dealing with school bullying. One may find recourse under a civil rights act, but it isnt a federal mandate specifically focused on bullying. You seem to be confused between individual state laws and federal laws.

Answer 6

The union mob rules schools, not the teachers or parents. This will stay the way it is until a full scale social revolution takes place.

Answer 7

Love it if you would cite the "federal mandate."



"Sticks and stones can break my bones but words can never hurt me." Get a life.