A question regarding the "Separation of Church and State"?

Question

I really want to try to avoid any political debate. This is purely a legal question that I'm curious about. We have the notion of "separation of church and state" yet we still say "Under God" in our pledge of allegiance, "In God We Trust" on our money, the use of the term 'marriage' (technically a religious term), and apparently now they want to put a cross at the World Trade Center.

Is this all technically legal? I was thinking the other day... say a president decided to put forth laws to ban the above things mentioned because they were considered unconstitutional. Sure, there'd be mass uproar and chaos in the streets so I doubt anyone would have the guts to actually do anything of the sort, but still... Say someone were to do that, wouldn't the Supreme Court have to uphold it because of the idea of "separation of church and state"?

Answer 1

The Constitution prohibits interference with the free exercise of religion (government can't tell you what religion to practice) and also prohibits the "establishment" of any religion, which means more or less the same thing. The Government may not say you must belong to "the Church of America" the way people had to belong to the Church of England at one time. These two rules have been called by some (including some of the justices on the Supreme Court) "the separation of church and state." However, the Constitution does not prohibit the state from embracing general religious ideas, like "in God we trust." The concept that "the state" may have no religious thought at all is not a firm legal rule, although some argue that it is. That's the best legal explanation I can give you without getting too technical.

Answer 2

The Pledge of Allegiance is not mandated by the Government.



also, the paper and coin currency that you carry is issued by the Federal Reserve (despite its name, it is not controlled by the Government). I believe actual US Treasury bonds (issued by the US Govt) do NOT say "In God We Trust".



Both of these examples are perfectly legal. And, in fact, the Establishment Clause prevents the government from establishing a state church, but not from publicly acknowledging a God (or even Gods). Separation of Church and State does not appear anywhere in the Constitution.



"say a president decided to put forth laws to ban the above things mentioned because they were considered unconstitutional"



President's don't put forth laws. They can ask Congress to come up with one, but all legislation must start in the House and Senate. A President making a law and passing it without Congress IS unconstitutional. Executive Orders have little legal power and can be overridden. They are in no way considered laws.



Marriage is a legal term with a legal definition. In order to be considered married by the state, you must apply for and be issued a marriage license. The religious ceremony involved is only tradition and for show. You can have a wedding and not be legally married. Conversely, you can become legally married and never have a wedding ceremony.



EDIT: The Federal Government does not have an all encompassing definition of marriage, rather, each state makes its own and the Feds back them up. If a state decides to specify that marriage is between one man and one woman, even if the definition agrees with some religions, it is not in itself establishing a religion or "playing favorites".



I'm not saying that gays shouldn't be allowed to get married, though.

Answer 3

Read the actual First Amendment, Government can't establish a religion, or favor one(yes that is a very shortened version, but more correct then "Separation of Church and State"). Anyway though most of your examples are examples of things that aren't considered religious anymore. The Cross would be the closest to causing a problem. However I'm not sure if the Government OWNS the land this would be done on. If the Government doesn't own the land the cross would be put on then the PRIVATE owner can put anything they want there.

Answer 4

Its has already happened Some people have stop the Nativity in some government offices but the Cross in the World Trade Center...is a problem I personally do not think it should be there (And am a Christian ) unless they add all the other religions but to do that would make a mockery of the WTC so i say do not put it there ..



And the reason the founding father wanted the separation of state and Church ..Is the Vatican ..see for a long time the Roman Catholic Church was and still is a Nation ..and in Europe the 2 main churches Were the Catholic Church and the Church of England And both ruled inside the governments of Europe ..Check the Spanish Inquisition , Napoleonic wars,Henry VIII. i wish i had more time to talk about this since this is my favorite topic to discuss Separation of Church and State Also check our Saudi Arabia and Mid east for more examples why i love this part of the Constitution..

Answer 5

The concept of "separation of church and state" is not a legal statement.

The only statement as to religion in the Constitution itself is in Article 6:

"The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."



And the First Amendment adds:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."



The important principle that seems to be forgotten today, is that the Founders and the Signers both wanted to ensure that the government did not interfere with the FREE exercise of religion by the people.

Answer 6

Amendment 1 states in part, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. . . "

Note that in *all* of your stated examples, the congress has NOT made any law respecting the establishment of religion.

The only ones who are acting in an unconstitutional manner regarding this issue are those who try to legislate laws prohibiting your stated examples (among other issues) due to the _second_ part of that amendment, to wit:"or prohibiting the free exercise thereof".

The president *cannot* "put forth laws" in any manner. The president is only one part of our system of government and can only sign bills into law or veto them. It is the full assembly of the congress that creates bills to be submitted for approval or rejection by the president.

In the case that the congress does not agree with a presidential veto, the assembled body can override that veto.

The "separation of church and state" is a much mis-quoted, taken out of context phrase from an unfortunate letter by Thomas Jefferson to a group of Baptist ministers who were complaining that their state government was interfering with their church activities.

Answer 7

"Separation of Church and State" is not actually a law. It's a concept liberals took from a letter Thomas Jefferson wrote to a religious organization in response to a letter he received. He wanted to assure the group that religion is a matter that "lies between a man and his God" and that the new government of the United States wouldn't force the people to follow a certain religion, as had been done in England. Jefferson wrote that "a wall of separation exists between Church and State."



Liberals are good at twisting history to suit their purpose. "Separation of Church and State" doesn't mean religion can't be visible or useful in political arenas. It means the government and religion are separated and the government can't force the people to follow or not follow a religion. Keep in mind that many of the signatories of the Declaration of Independence were members of churches in the Colonies. Also, if you tour Washington, DC, you'll notice that there are biblical references on many government buildings, in many government offices, and you may even hear that each session of Congress begins with a prayer. This prayer is said by a minister whose salary has been paid by the American taxpayer since the 18th century.

Answer 8

"The separation of church and state" is actually not found anywhere in the constitution or any other sort of document that our country was founded on. The only place the separation of church and state appears is in Thomas Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptists. So I don't know why all of what you mentioned wouldn't be legal.



I do apologize if this was not what you were looking for / I failed to answer your question correctly.

Answer 9

"Separation of Church and State" is a way to explain the Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment. And no where in the First Amendment does it state anything about "Freedom FROM Religion". It says "Freedom OF Religion".



And both "In God We Trust" and "Under God" have been to the courts, and they have ruled that it does not violate the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment, therefore, it is constitutional.

Answer 10

Good question. The answer is up for debate. Does that acknowledgement of the existence of a deity constitute establishing a religion and, therefore, is a clear violation of the First Amendment? Or does the First Amendment only refer to specific religious canon, like Christianity or Judaism? The specific dividing line of where government and religion mix too much usually changes with who is in power in government.



I believe government institutions have no business acknowledging religion, even so far as admitting the existence of a deity. However, I don't think that should impede people from expressing their personal religious beliefs, even for people elected to positions of government. For example, I have a bit of a problem with our official motto being "In God We Trust," but I don't have a problem with a president saying "In God We Trust."

Answer 11

According to "The Federalist Papers", the contemporaneous explanation of the [proposed] constitution, 1789: The Supreme Court is the weakest of the branches of government because it has no power to ENFORCE (emphasis is mine) their rulings.



So yeah it can rule no prayer in public schools, but last time I was at my daughter's public school the principal was leading a prayer over the PA system.

Answer 12

Marriage is actually a legal term not a religious one. It's the legal union of two entities (people). It's not a religious term at all.



Separation of church and state means more along the lines of, if you are athiest or don't go to Church one Sunday no one is going to show up to arrest you for breaking one of the commandments. It means you can not be arrested for being Jewish when the rest of the neighborhood is Catholic. If someone or a group wants to express their religious beliefs they are free to do so. No one says you can't place other symbols other than a cross, do they? You need to completely understand what that amendment means in it's entirely. It's not about religion being "illegal" or that the practice, belief of, or showing symbolism of a religion is illegal. It means the Church cannot create state laws and vice versa.

Answer 13

The First Amendment states that state should not be involved in church, no establishment of a government run religion.



It does not say that church should stay out of politics. Read it some time.

Answer 14

I agree, they probably shouldn't. I'd be a little upset because I'm a Christian, but I believe in America we can believe in whatever higher power we want and it shouldn't have to cross with politics. I'm fine with all of this, but someone of another religion might be furious. I'd be a little upset if Budah was on all of our money and all these other things...so really...they should be separated...but it's sad.

Answer 15

The Supreme Court has not done its job - if it did, there wouldn't be any mention of God or other unfounded beliefs on our currency or in our Pledge of Allegiance.



There should not be a cross or any religious symbology at the WTC - it was religion at the root of the 9/11 attacks - why anybody would want to have that in there is beyond me. Just silly superstition, IMO.

Answer 16

not the way every body wants to do away with what our forefathers setup so tat now we are getting closer to a dictatorial government and the people are not worrying about it and can't find jobs and the government turns a deaf ear to them and the people let hem get away with it. people are like sheep

Answer 17

The US was founded based on Christianity, therefore they keep the God thing on their money to remember their Christian ancestors.

Answer 18

The amendment says there's a separation of nonchristian churches and the state. You're only allowed to be Christian here in America... or else.

Answer 19

no. it's not.