Are the racist chants of the former University Oklahoma chapter of the SAE fraternity justification for expelling the students despite?

Question

Are the racist chants of the former University Oklahoma chapter of the SAE fraternity justification for expelling the students despite?

Answer 1

That's like expecting to not be fired if you tell your boss to go **** himself. 1st amendment isn't saving you from being kicked out lol. That's not what it's for. People have to stop this free speech defense every time someone suffers consequences, because most of the time it isn't even a legal matter.

Answer 2

They violated the university "code of conduct."



You don't have freedom of speech in schools, or when you are working for a private company, for example. When they joined the school, they are told the rules of the schools, and if you break the rules, then they can kick you out.



You are right, however, that people are allowed to say whatever they want and believe whatever they want, even if it is racist, and the American laws and constitution protects it.

Answer 3

Why would you send that video to the black student union in the first place? Alcohol doesn't make you a genius. And people out in the real world who went to the school of hard knocks don't give a crap about whiny frat boys. Good luck in interviews with the expelled from OU part.

Answer 4

I am from Oklahoma and this is just shameful what happened.

Bunch of rich kids. They are getting what they deserve.

Answer 5

Absolutely, the school doesn't wish to be associated with the repulsive behaviors of those men. Students often find they don't have freedom of speech, and that there are standards that have to be met.

Your constitutional protection is regarding political speech This wasn't political speech this was simply vicious and left an impression that the fraternity itself is racist. "There will never be N----- SAE" is reprehensible.

There seems to be several problems with that particular fraternity. Their leadership needs to be more open, and maybe change their pledge procedures since that's gotten the whole fraternity a bad reputation, with more deaths last year than any other fraternity.

In 2013, the Washington University in St. Louis chapter of SAE was suspended after some of its pledges were instructed to direct racial slurs at a group of black students. Last year, 15 SAE members at the University of Arizona broke into a historically Jewish off-campus fraternity and physically assaulted its members while yelling discriminatory comments at them. In December, Clemson University's SAE chapter was suspended after the fraternity hosted a "cripmas" party where students dressed up as gang members.

This isn't a one time thing with them, they have a systemic problem

Answer 6

I believe that people should be able to say whatever they want without legal ramifications from the government. However, they should be subject to things such as being expelled, fired from their jobs, alienated by their friends, etc. if they say evil things. The first amendment protects them from being thrown in jail for saying something, but there are ramification that don't involve the government that apply to hate speech.

Answer 7

Being a person of color , I would not go after the students , it seems they are singing a fraternity song , so I would ban the fraternity and then investigate them cause it's a reason they sing that song with so much excitement .

SAE teaching hate and discrimination to the future of our country ?

With our beloved USA and all of it's ugly past and some present acts of racial inequality this the concern of young America in the SAE organization ?



We as American's wonder why we can't get past the color issues in this country. People of color has been in this country before the " White man " and will be here long after we are all gone. If we do not stop this education of hate and division we will suffer in the end. America is the home to many from far away lands. No one would like to live any place else . For SAE my heart go's out to you , cause even in today's life the only worry is a person of color joining you fraternity. May the all mighty God reach out a touch your heart .

Answer 8

Freedom of speech trumps hurt feelings.

Answer 9

The 1st amendment protects people from being prosecuted by the government. It does not protect them from being thrown out of school, their fraternities, a bar or anyplace. else. There are consequences to bad behavior.

No one has suggested that they be arrested.

Answer 10

The First Amendment protects you from the government. The government is not taking any action against them.



Most universities and workplaces have their own speech codes. Those are primarily used to restrict hate speech, in order to prevent a hostile educational environment.



I don't believe it's been disclosed exactly what grounds the university used to expel the students. But I believe the students technically violated the school's non-discrimination policy. Their conduct directed at a particular race was sufficient to result in a hostile environment, when viewed as a whole. And for what it's worth, the university had the ability to boot the entire frat from housing -- implying the property was university-owned.



Anyway, they're presumably booted more for the resulting hostile environment, than the speech itself.

Answer 11

I think there is a problem when you draw a line on free speech. If our constitution protects free speech then do we say anyone but the government can restrict it? I am deeply offended by many words, spoken and written, that I encounter in my daily life. Some offend me as affronts directly to my religion or other beliefs. Some, like this Oklahoma situation, offend me indirectly. Some things offend me politically. I would love it if I could go through life without hearing or seeing any of these. But once we start restricting it, how do we maintain freedom. And it is a very slippery slope. If the FCC rules that no one can say anything offensive about the President, now, or 8 years ago, I think we all would say there is a problem. And that is exactly what congress did in the late 19th century with the Sedition Act. I fear that if OU can expel students for this, then any organization or company I join will soon be able to fire me for comments that have nothing to do with my employment. As much as I hate the results, I am afraid free speech must be not be restricted expect in certain very specific and well defined circumstances. A corollary issue here - will OU now discipline professors and other teachers who create an uncomfortable learning environment by ridiculing and criticizing specific religious beliefs (if that should happen)?

Answer 12

first of all let me say that I heard this was happening on other campuses as well. I only heard, didn't see the video. We grew up with the phrase "sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me" so why was politically correctness ever formed anyway as it's causing a LOT of problems and in EVERY thing we all do today. I don't know if these fraternity guys were drinking or not but people lose all their inhibitions and let loose on silly and dumb things when they drink and should never be taken seriously. Lots of things happen at these kegger parties but moreso today than in the past, and in the past they were covered up or just weren't verbalized and there was no internet to spread the word and have opinions from EVERYONE. Years ago opinions weren't heard, we were a quiet nation. Maybe the question should be, how do you quiet the internet. And how do you stop children from having the internet experience since it's they who in their young minds are taking this all in and making opinions without proof and stirring the pot. Silence the internet? Expelling the kids isn't going to do a thing.

Answer 13

In this case, the first amendment DOES protect them from being expelled by the school, because it is a government-run school.



The university would have a case for expulsion if the chant was done in such a way that it was harassing black students, but I don't think that can apply here. Most frats are technically off-campus, making it difficult to make a case that they were creating a hostile learning envirinment. (They could make the same video again after they were expelled, after all, so expelling them can't even solve a problem, and if the First Amendment means anything, it means that the government doesn't get to punish people just because it doesn't like what they are saying.)



The university decided to expel them anyway. That doesn't mean that the university was within their rights to do this - a lawsuit is likely in the near future, and the racists are likely to win.

Answer 14

I think was a little excessive, and Im black. Although the university is well in there rights to expel them, I would of been fine with disbanding the fraternity, suspension for a semester for those involved, and some sort of probation. The punishment didn't come as a surprise to me, given the reaction to anything racial in the last five years or so. I am for free speech and the protection of it, and cannot stand political correctness. But I understand the universities position, which cannot be associated in any way with a group that supports institutionalized racism.

Answer 15

I thought it was awful.

There will always be racist sadly but I think the percentage has dramatically dropped in the last 40 years.



Do I think they should be expelled? Yes , and here's why.

the statement they made was no African American was ever gonna be allowed in their SAE fraternity, which I think crosses the line from personal hate to discrimination.

Sadly we can't stop peoples personal hate and racism but we can stop discrimination, so yes expell them.

I was discriminated against in school even though I am white it still hurt.

I just moved to the town and had no friends yet and at recess , there was 3 schoolmates who where jumping rope and singing they really was good and I wanted to listen and jump rope as well.

They backed me up against the fence and one shoved me the other slapped me and called me a white cracker, and ask me what I was looking at. I was shocked this caught me off guard.

It's a shame we could have been friends had they been able to look pass the color of my skin, this incident never made me angry or mad at African Americans as a whole in fact I have known many who have treated me wonderful and some not so great.

bottom line haters gonna hate no matter the color of their skin, but we can't tolerate discrimination no matter the color of our skin I got it for being white and that lesson learned early on taught me never to judge by color.

So we need to be mindful of other "humans" feelings and judge people on individual actions not skin color lump everyone together, and assume all people of the same skin color are this or that.

Answer 16

Maybe kick out the instigators or leaders if they can be identified. Definitely nullify their fraternity.



Actually I just thought of this; students involved have to leave/give up/denounce the frat in order to stay in school. I'm not for kicking people out of college, even thogh it would probably be best that it happens to them if it has to happen to someone.



The individual students should lose all funding through the school, if they had any. Scholarship providers if not through the school should be told, so they can pull their scholarships if themed like.



I'm guessing this is a public university, but if it was a private institution I think it should be %100 up to the institution.

Answer 17

You are asking two questions, one is a focused question while the other one is too broad or esoteric. They were removed because they support an idea that is not appropriate, unethical and will cause too many politic issues with the university. It does not matter where any of us stand with this video, the trust is that colleges and universities are big business and this is bad for business. Does that mean that the people who decided to remove these students and this frat chapter are against racist? Maybe, I bet they are but bottom line, it is a business and it does not matter what race you are to understand that they were removed primarily (but not necessarily only) for racist comments/hate speech.

Answer 18

Hate speech is not free speech. Hate speech is a premeditated assault on usually 1 specific person or small out numbered group.



That has nothing to do with conjectures. Or, what you would call a calm reasonable conversation that mutually benefits everyone involved some what.



In that instance only one group benefited. Like how Hanible Lecter benefited. Are you saying, people should be allowed to eat other humans as long as it's within their rights? I don't think that's good, but that's why were here to help you understand.



That whole frat should be burned to the ground and the people inside attacked by gangs from every ghetto in america like Woodstock for gangsters, if this were a great movie.

Answer 19

There was certainly justification for disbanding the fraternity. For expulsion, potentially, but that is for the committee responsible for prosecuting violations of the University's code of conduct to decide. Due process wasn't followed, and Boren effectively carried out his own lynch mob against them. The school and Boren personally could be liable for that oversight.



There were no statements made sufficient to constitute a threat by any legal standard. Were that the case, every protester in Furgeson the day Wilson was exonerated should have been arrested. "You can hang them in a tree, but they'll never sign with me," is a hypothetical conditional statement with no direct target. The requirements for the prospect that a threat of violence could or would immediately be carried out, and is immediate, unconditional, and specific aren't met. Not a threat. People who say otherwise are ill-informed and are intentionally inflaming the issue to make these stupid and, yes, bigoted kids out to be members of the KKK. That is not the case. A better solution would be to require now-former members of SAE to have racial sensitivity training in order for them to remain students.

[edited for gammar]

Answer 20

The sanction of fraternities/sororities has always mystified me as a part of an educational institution unless they were being studied by the Sociology, Anthropology and Psychology Departments, as a segregationist culture. Which is what they are. The students cannot be expelled but the organization can.

Answer 21

First of all, the 1st Amendment gives freedom of speech. It refers to FREEDOM TO SPEAK OUR OWN OPINIONS. It does not give freedom to "sing a song," aka racial chant, on a public school's bus. If it was the frat's own transportation, they might have a case.



Secondly, I agree with gentleman "of color" above, in that the school should have banned the fraternity, as it was "their song" everyone was chanting. To me, it is obvious the student who "leaked" the video was not comfortable with being in the frat or just the chants. Regardless, the officials should NOT have expelled the students in question, but put them on probation. They did publicly apologize, and again, I would blame the frat for teaching such slurs.



I'm sure many of the students on that bus were uncomfortable with those chants, but there is such a need to fit in at that age, they just went along to be included. Personally, I never would have joined or stayed in such an insensitive young group.

Answer 22

I'm not sure whether or not they should be expelled based upon how offensive their words were, but I will say that true freedom carries with it the fact of offense. Meaning that at some point, everyone is guaranteed to both take offense from, and cause offense to, one or more people.



It's the reason I believe political correctness is the downfall of modern civilization, and the basis for the many degradations of freedom here in the United States of America, as well as I'm sure other countries in the world.

Answer 23

Expelling students for this is not the way to end racist. Actually there appears to be more or greater racial divisions not than 8 years ago, or perhaps angry young people are just expressing themselves. Young (and not so young) Black people by destroying private property and disrupting commerce and young White people by singing or chanting less economically destructive words of rage.

Is the School justified in expelling students for displays of prejudice, I don'r know. Have any blacks been expelled for similar activities, we all know the racism and prejudice run both ways.

Personally, there are certain words as a child I was taught not to use. especially the one word that meant useless trash and was not directed toward any one race. Sadly the Great Unifier, has unified nothing and only made the division greater. NO UO was not "justified" in the expelling students, they learned nothing.

Answer 24

I personally believe that there should be an obvious border between free speech and "free speech". I mean, I do believe that it's wrong for these students to have committed this act of racism, but it does raise some questions about how to determine what is free speech and what isn't. I completely agree with @Re Vera's idea of sensitivity training, but I can understand why the Dean decided to do what he did, dealing with a PR nightmare like this is a hellstorm, but it was just easier to sidestep it by expelling them, hence setting an example for others who would try something like they did. However, the most effective way to go about it would be the sensitivity training/second chance method. That way, if they do end up doing it again, at least you can make the argument that you tried before taking the final measure of expulsion.

And @It's Common Sense, no, there is no common sense in your rant, at least in my opinion.

"They were having fun, psyching themselves up with school spirit. Does it really MATTER what they said if it wasn't said with malice? " Are you shitting me? Making racist slurs is your idea of school spirit? What school did you go to? These students needed to have some common sense before going through with this idiotic chant.

Answer 25

Those kids got what they deserved. Hate speech should never be ignored when it is threatening. They literally talked about hanging African-Americans from trees. So obviously many black kids that went to that school probably felt threatened. That particular frat was not the first to do similar things. There are many instances of Greek organizations across that country having racist parties where they dress up as offensive caricatures of black people. Hopefully this will be a warning to them that racism or any other kind of hateful behavior will not be permitted at college, where people are supposed to be learning and broadening their minds.

Answer 26

Seems like nobody here was around in the race-rioting 60s and 70s. Nor were they around at any time in history when blacks were sold by their own and others, carved up by their own, despised by the rulers of all kingdoms and basically written off as people from the very beginning of time. The racists rants don't really matter. Doesn't get much worse than being black. But we all knew that, right?

Answer 27

Generations ago this despicable behavior would be considered a "harmless" frat boy prank. Hard to believe but well into the mid 20th century blackface that very embodiment of racism, was a popular form of entertainment. It was not uncommon well into the 1950s for high school, fraternities and local theater groups would perform in blackface. The real Mad men of Madison Ave. had no compunction utilizing blackface in their advertising. Take a look http://wp.me/p2qifI-1LM

Answer 28

We as American's wonder why we can't get past the color issues in this country. People of color has been in this country before the " White man " and will be here long after we are all gone. If we do not stop this education of hate and division we will suffer in the end. America is the home to many from far away lands. No one would like to live any place else . For SAE my heart go's out to you , cause even in today's life the only worry is a person of color joining you fraternity. May the all mighty God reach out a touch your heart

Answer 29

If these students are expelled for using words that make others uncomfortable or upset, then EVERY student who is accused of using ANY word another person doesn't like needs to be expelled as well. If that were to happen, I would enroll just to complain about the people saying "White" instead of "Caucasian". See how that can go?

Answer 30

Questions not answers:



Was the recording legal? Was it legal to publish recording without consent? Was recording done in private environment or public.



Is Fraternity considered a private social club? At some schools fraternities are not on campus, not given any financial assistance by university and are policed by city not campus police. How can you be expelled for a non-sanction event at a private party? Did anyone break a law?



Universities turn the other way when they see and have knowledge of underage drinking, underage sex, illegal use of drugs, public intoxication, destruction of public property at celebrations or events,committing felonies and the list goes on. Certain racial slurs. What would have happen if instead of N word they used ******,*****,honky,redneck,or even redskin , etc, etc.



Yes they were stupid and racist and should have been punished but expulsion is pretty severe being drunk and stupid. Might ruined their life.

Answer 31

Absolutely justified in my opinion. The constitution protects your right to freedom of speech and expression in a legal sense. However, establishments are permitted to establish their own code of conduct and if this speech goes against the code, then organizations are well within their rights to terminate your employment, expel you, or ban you from the premises, or whatever the case may be with regard to the establishment in question. The University obviously does not want to be associated with this and understandably so. Honestly, I think a better punishment would ve been to let them stay on campus where they would be the most hated people there and social lepers that nobody would associate with.

Answer 32

I think not It was a poor choice of words But what about the 18 or more all black only fraternity's that exist or the Black caucuses' in in Congress that exist Racism is an ugly reality But it is practiced by all ethnic groups and not confined to just whites or just practiced in America

Answer 33

I tend to think this would depend upon the university's code of conduct for students. Most unversities have them. If the code states that inciteful speech is an expellable offense, then yes, it is justification for expelling the students involved.

Answer 34

That's really up to each university. Universities have a "Code of Conduct" that each student is given when they

enter the university. They are expected to honor that code to protect the name and reputation of said university. Many members of the same family follow older members of the family to the same university and fraternities or sororities of that university, a family tradition, if you will. This family tradition usually occurs because the university is "prestigious" and develops its students into upstanding young citizens over the course of their years at the college, and prepares them to succeed in the world they live in. The thing that bothers me about this situation is there's a "double standard" for "hate speech". A rapper, either black or white, can write lyrics and perform in front of audiences or record the song, and use "hate speech" lyrics as a part of the rap song, as well as

using violent messages in the rap song, and people expect this type of behavior because they "know" about the particular artist. The same goes for standup comics. Richard Prior was mediocre until he began using his life, his neighborhood he grew up in, and his natural reactions to life's situations, in his routine. He used many derogatory terms about himself, his neighborhood and his career. He was a fantastic artist because he related to all people. The most important thing was, he made us all, black and white, laugh! Hate speech involves different situations, so we have to decide each situation on it's own merits. The incident was likely a random act of stupidity by a group of fraternity brothers who likely had been partying and allowed the results of that partying take over their better judgement. The university had every right to protect the other students at the university from this type of foolishness by expelling the leaders that started the "hate speech" chant.

Answer 35

morally, yes. legally, no, because public universities are considered to be covered by the 1st Amendment and can't punish students for speech (if it happened at a private university, they would be allowed to expel the students because they aren't considered a government agency). If the incident took place in a public area where it could be considered harassing/threatening to bystanders, the university might have grounds to expel them for creating a hostile environment.

Answer 36

That would depend on whether the University is classified as a private or public facility, and its charter/rules and regulations of attendance that would govern the actions of its students: what and who the University is legally responsible for on the premises of the University.

Going on the premise that the University is private with rules and regulations governing its students to restrict certain activities as violating its policies that would be penalized by suspension, I would have to concur with the expelling of the students.

Going on the premise that the University is private with rules and regulations governing its students to NOT restrict certain activities as violating its policies that would penalize with suspension, I would have to disagree with the expelling of the students.

Going on the premise that the University is public, and there be any rules or regulations of policy that prohibit such behavior of its students actions on its premises with penalty up to and including expulsion, the University acted accordingly.

Contrarily, if the University is public, and there be no guidelines prohibiting such behavior by its students on University premises as it pertains to policy, the University acted illegally, and may be subject to suit by those expelled.

The American's Constitutional right to "Freedom of Speech" must be protected no matter how that speech is liked or disliked, agreed with or disagreed with as long as it does not purposefully incite a mob/lynch mentality among the hearers that would endanger the lives, or physical well being of innocent persons or property.



Although I am not in support of any form of racial prejudice, or hatred of any sort, the truth, that is truth indeed; as in the case of true religion, being told is often times hurtful to the deceiver, or the one unwittingly involved in the lie, yet the telling of that truth must not be hindered, suppressed, nor prevented by any who may wish to protect the deceiver or the feelings of those effected by the knowledge of that truth. For, how can one make a conscious decision or choice concerning critical aspects of life absent all of the facts for and in opposition to the end result of decisions and choices that would be made?



I hope this answer was helpful to you.



Be blessed, Amen.

Answer 37

Yes, racism is still a very big issue, and when young people start doing **** like this, it means someone gave them that idea, or influenced them in some way. They should all be expelled, and not given a second chance, since this is not just a childish thing, but endangefing black lives.

Answer 38

They are justified. They can exercise free speech, but the University has the right to expell them for violating the code of conduct.



The right to free speech only guarantees that congress will not come after you. States, localities, schools and business all have the right to toss you out for offensive speech.

Answer 39

The First Amendment allowed them to express their opinion, which is ok as long as they aren't harming anyone. In some areas, hate speech itself is considered harmful, and is illegal, but that venue does not appear to be one of those places.



The First Amendment does not guarantee that they can keep a job, be retained as a student in good standing, or even keep someone as a friend. Every fool must learn. And I say that as someone who made a lot of mistakes at that age, but even so, could never fathom doing what they did.

Answer 40

The university chose it's actions very carefully. Yes, the students have freedom of speech.



They were expelled for "creating a hostile atmosphere" for others. Clever.

Answer 41

like everyone is saying the 1st amendment only protects you from he government, who are not taking action. As a black person i would say to obviously investigate the frat and have it shut down if the investigation allows it, as for the students id probably suspended them at the most, not expell them. Interesting to note, there are a few blacks in the frat, and if i recalled blake griffin used to be in it to(though he is biracial so im not sure if that counts)

Answer 42

Usually, I would say that they would be protected under the 1st amendment. However, they ARE outright saying that they would discriminate against a black man if he wanted to join. And, obviously, that is against the law. I personally believe that hate speech should not be protected, because it violates the law which prohibits discrimination. (I am strictly looking at this from a non personal stand point. I am personally disgusted by their words on the video and hate to think of any discrimination).

Answer 43

Whether it's Constitutional or not, colleges are allowed to have standards and can expel students if they violate those standards. Plagiarism isn't unconstitutional, but some colleges will expel students for it.

Answer 44

I know one thing: If Blacks had been chanting anti-White comments, NONE of them would have been expelled. NONE of them. It's ok for Blacks to be racist, something we see all the time. But if just one non-Black uses the 'n' word, he or she has to pay fines, they lose their job, they get kicked out of school, and there are endless legal efforts to destroy their lives. One day the "pendulum" is going to swing in the other direction and all of this politically correct *&%$#@! is going to be flushed down the toilet where it belongs, and we'll have a population of intelligent people again, instead of these hoards of politically correct types who thoroughly lack the ability to think. We need to begin now to cultivate political INcorrectness (thinking, in other words) by teaching our children according to reality instead of feelgoodism. Let us bring up a generation of ponderers instead of whiners, children who will question what the world is trying to shove down their throats (through the schools & entertainment media) instead of mindlessly going along with all of it. Political correctness cannot last forever because its basis is idiocy. Let us begin now to create the conditions necessary for children's minds to develop normally instead of allowing them to be perverted according to the modern trends. Political correctness is the disease of the age, and it must be allowed to die so that real people can express truth and so that they can ask questions without being by criminalized by an oppressive system that has managed to censor and censure millions of young creative minds in the world ...

Answer 45

with high tensions in the south right now over ferguson i expect groups or whites and blacks to be chanting racism, those students should only have gotten a warning. Media Bullying them & getting vengeance them by kicking them out of school is not going to solve anything, media shouldnt have aired it on TV knowing theres already high tensions

Answer 46

Hate speech is protected by the first amendment since KKK are allowed to march with a permit on the roads. However, UO has code of conduct rules just like every university.

Answer 47

What are the ACTUAL RULES?

If this is covered in the rules, whatever penalty is SPECIFIED IN THE RULES should be carried-out.

If this is not covered in the rules, they should not basically tell students, "now that you did that, we've decided we don't like it and we're going to punish you." If they don't like something that's NOT in the rules, they should MAKE A NEW RULE and warn people that behavior will NO LONGER be tolerated.

Answer 48

If the University receives any Public funding, they must protect freedom of speech. As at that point it is partially a Public facility. If the student's freedom of speech was violated by expulsion, yes, they can absolutely bring a lawsuit against the school.



*Freedom of speech protects even speech we don't like.*



However, if the University is comprised of a 100% private fund... no, they don't have a case and the University can kick out anyone it wants based on their own "code of conduct". But if it receives just one red cent of tax payer's money... they must not violate the People's Constitutionally protected rights as the Constitution trumps ANY code of conduct.



It'll be up to the courts to decide if the expulsion was the result of their speech or not... which we all know it was. But nevertheless the University tried to tip toe around the Constitution. But I doubt the students will bring it to court... but they could if they feel they were treated unfairly for their speech.

Answer 49

On the Legal issue, I am not qualified to comment. BUT, Morally. in my opinion, this is justification for expulsion. Students, have been expelled for less...

Answer 50

Absolutely. Yes, it was justified. And I am glad that they threw those stinking b*st*rds out of school. They deserve every bit of it for their arrogance. And let me make something clear here, there is a big difference between the use of freedom of speech and the abuse of freedom of speech and we all know what this was! And another thing here, It is a real sorry initiative that causes people to use provisions of our Constitution to actually defend such FREAKEN ARROGANCE ! And yes, I am white.

Answer 51

For common sense reasons, people can be arrested for yelling "fire" in a crowded pubic venue. To split hairs under the guise "wanting to protect the First Amendment Rights" of these students doesn't fly considering the violence and devastation from 345 years of racism in these so-called United States of America!

Answer 52

If was an all blacks only frat with racist chants against whites and jews, they'd get to have tea at the white house

Answer 53

Hate speech MUST be protected under the First Amendment.



Louis Farrakahn utilizes the First Amendment when he calls Caucasians *cracka's*

so the "n" word no longer needs to be abbreviated .... anyone using it is, and should be, equally protected.



REINSTATE THOSE YOUNG PEOPLE ... NOW.

Answer 54

Those kids who sang that song are morons no doubt. But the fact is there is a fine line between free speech and threatening and offensive speech. This was made on a private bus going to an off campus private event. So this is free speech. If they were on campus or at a school activity such as college sponsored dance or going around on campus and someone was intimidated by it then it maybe a violation of college policy. But a frat is a private club and this was not on campus. Also note the national office has a right to restrict what its members can or can't say on it's property or events. They did revoke membership at the U of Ok. and the students in question withdrew from school on their own. Expulsion requires a formal hearing(s). By allowing a public college to expel them because of this especially without due process is a bad idea. If they are allowed to do this one could be expelled telling a dirty joke off campus. Think about it. They could go through your CD collection and expel you because you have rap music. The N word shows up in many hip hop songs so expel any kid who has one of these CDs. Public universities have to much discretionary power that is abused why give them more? Another question is how come if you sing this idiotic song there is outrage but if there is a party and some throws a beer bottle blinding someone walking down the street nothing happens?( That happened at the U of Washington). The best weapon against offensive speech is free speech. BTW aren't race based organizations on campus racist?

Answer 55

Yes

Answer 56

It was not illegal - first amendment rights. No legal issue.

But it may be a violation of rules of the chapter, so expulsion may be pursued based upon their governances.

In any case, it was an inappropriate situation.

Answer 57

We all deal with some kind of negative remarks against us by other people.

Freedom of speech must be protected. Racist chants show the bad heart of the person, but evil speech is spoken throughout America. If we made laws against all those with the wrong and bad heart that had no love in them, then we would be making laws every day.

Answer 58

"freedom of speech" protects you from the government. It does not regulate other organizations.



You do have the right to incur the consequences of the actions you take. These imbaciles/sheep should have known better. Although, as I admit, they are young and dumb and following other people.

Answer 59

Stuff like this has been happening for years, people just are too stupid to realize. They only reason they got caught was bc of a cell phone video. So it won't change anything. Nothing new to talk about here

Answer 60

Fraternities often do outrageously evil things and should be shut down more often. George W. Bush's first scandal was branding new members of his fraternity with a red-hot coat hanger.

Answer 61

I don't think so.



Students should be allowed free speech, however organizations must conform to regulations in order to receive special treatment and funding. You have a right to endorse the Klan on campus, but not the right to organize a campus sponsored klan group.

Answer 62

YES! Alcohol or drugs either one brought out the true self of that/those individuals

in a school house. The Frat mother is lawless as well at that age.

Answer 63

Yes, it was justified. Regardless of whether hate-speech is protected under the 1st Amendment or not, it was wrong and not acceptable public behavior at reputable institute of higher education.

Answer 64

I don't think so and my reason is that had the colors been switched - had a black frat done this with an anti-white chant - no one would have as much as batted an eyelash. Given that the left want "equality" this sort of reaction totally contradicts that idea - but then contradictions have always been an integral part of the "progressive" agenda that focuses on what COULD be and not what IS.



I think it is truly stupid to have done what these guys did, but it doesn't justify expulsion and the resulting negative effect on the rest of the man's life.



However, I know why the University staff did what they did - to avoid a federal investigation ( a fate worse than death for a University) and risk losing federal funding (the means by which the feds enforce "political correctness").

Answer 65

The First Amendment protects citizens from criticizing the government, but it doesn't protect them from libel, treason, threats, or talk of lynching.



These students were expelled for good reason and their expulsion was perfectly justified.



The fact this was a state institution or federally-supported is irrelevant.

Answer 66

Free speech is only the right to legal speech without government censorship.

Hate speech, by definition, is illegal speech. Illegal speech is not free speech.



Schools can expel whomever they choose for whatever they determine are grounds of dismissal.

Schools are not the government for your question to make any sane, rational sense whatsoever.

Answer 67

There is one question that we need to know the answer to before this question can be answered. What does their student handbook say about such behavior? More importantly how is it categorized and what are the listed possible punishments.

Answer 68

Every one on the bus should have been expelled not just the two chant leaders

Answer 69

All students involved should bee expelled, there is no place in today's society for ignorant racist people.

Answer 70

you are all dumb... who cares about some white retards being retarded... if ***** ****** wanna hate people for being black that is their business... black people can be just as racist the fact that people wait for other races be not present while this **** happens proves one thing, they are all a bunch of vagina's man people there is nothing wrong with racism everyone is racist in some way shape or form whether they deny it or not

Answer 71

Freedom of speech is indeed important but as said university can change its policies and i don't think theres any need for racism even if its tradition.

Answer 72

The job of a university is to educate students. That isn't always done in the classroom.

Answer 73

Hate speech is a violation of the schools Code of Ethics.

Answer 74

the school that i go to has a strict policy on greek life and KKG was banned until 2018 and they're not 100% allowed to come back so they might be banned forever

Answer 75

They knew EXACTLY what they were doing. They did it because they knew it was wrong. A lot of this age group, lets their MOUTHS over rule their brains, most do this type of thing for attention from others their age group, they think they are "cool", how cool are you now? I think it is funny as HELL, they got kicked out, run to mommy and daddy for more money, lets see them get you out of this one, bet they are proud of the mouth they raised. See how it feels to get picked on, aggravating, embarrassing and you made yourself look like complete azzes!!! You wanted attention, you got it!!!

Answer 76

They should have kept their scary white azzes on campus and let the blacks beat the shyt out of them, lol. Damn shame to be young adults in 2015 and to be so racist, hey, they got it honestly. Always talking shyt behind closed doors or amongst themselves.

Answer 77

Yes-especially considering the school s history in the 1950s.

Answer 78

They should be protected from expulsion.



However, the special privileges enjoyed by the fraternity on campus should be ended.

Answer 79

No they just words way to much is made about so called racist talk.In reality who's business is it anyway.Guess the tight butt checks in charge forget (Sticks an stones will break my bones names will never hurt me) Way to much crap about racist's who cares an so what.

Answer 80

Yes, I believe it is justification in today's world and these students should have known better. No, I believe hate speech should not be protected by the first amendment; I however acknowledge that the term has to be clearly defined, which would be tough. Example: Is "Hey, fatty!" hate speech? To some, yes.

Answer 81

The government objects to just taking action against them completely.

Answer 82

Yes

Answer 83

Yes, I think they should be expelled... what they did was unforgiveable and wrong, very wrong! I also think they should publish the face and name of whomever took the video..is this a person to be trusted.. hard to tell.



And while they are rounding up all the white racists, I think they should have a look at some of the black racists too... this is not a trend that is soley a white issue these days.

Answer 84

If they expect students to follow a code of conduct and they believe the stupid song violates that code then they are justified.

Answer 85

Expulsion is completely justified.



The freedom of expression protects you from certain criminal charges for expression of opinion or religion. It does NOT protect you from other consequences. The students face no criminal charges - they ll just have to find another school to attend. That is a reasonable consequence for their misdeeds.

Answer 86

Freedom is only functional as long as it doesn't grossly infringe on others' rights. Freedom to do anything imaginable is called "anarchy". Total, absolute freedom means no crime laws, no taxes to pay for roads and other basic necessities, and no purpose in voting.



Therefore, I'm casting my vote for "hell, yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Answer 87

NO!!



What happened to the Step Father of Michel Brown who chanted

burn this bi*tch down?? NO A DAMN THING!!



Is that right??

Answer 88

Well, no one would ever be fired or expelled or given detention if the First Amendment meant we had license to behave any awful way we wanted to.

Answer 89

yes They violated the school rules and policy so they can be expelled.

No different if it happen in the work place on company time or company property.

Welcome to the real adult world!

Answer 90

from a purely legal stance you should just ignore it on the basis that even a black man could sing this song and find respect for doing it,,the term nigur is not only for describeing the color of skin the book term is for trash hints i will never be a trashy person can be sung even by a black person you could even play with the term as a nicker or even a knicker which are basicly panties for a girl no shame if your a dude wanting to stick with a girl like panties on her butt it can also be said that nigur means hatefull hints [nigh'gurr] so if your just cool you sure as hell wont be treated like a ni'gurr except perhaps by the few who are missled already others will generaly sit quiet and respect or even admire and or stand in caughtious reverance just being unsure of what kinda person you are wheather you join in with the racial arguement of being hatefull about it or if you can laff about it and truly know the word for more than color in this case standing your ground means simply being a cool person in otherwords just showing that you are not a trashy person meaning your behavoirs and reactions are not negative you can defend yourself but dont be the attacker you can stand for right but dont stand for negative read the book of job concerning the wife asking him to curse god and die and when satan bets that job would curse god and the book of revelations concerning blasphemeous names if you will notice the wrongfull charactor seemed to think a word could not be said and also veiwed god as a punisher while god laffs at the ignorence of evil because our words are just noise and there is not one noise of the mouth that could hurt you and if you spoke a thing against your own will then its not your fault if only speaking a word saved your life then so be it say some **** its just a noise and it dont mean crap when it comes to the creator of love because it is deeper than a word,as for job the expression of the wife means if someone else comes in my name pretending to be me then go ahead and cuss and curse the hell outa me cuz that sure as hell wont be me hints gods gonna be who god is no matter what you might call him and when gods not realy himself you gota be brave enough to know the difference and brave enough to curse them out of gods place hints brave enough to ask questions as well this is a kindness that god offers in mercey to the human condition that we may ask and have questions and even to doubt and search out the truth if the speaker is god or some other hatefull judgemental punisher a loveing heart will understand god as a loveing being while the ignorent will only be ignorent as for the song even you could sing along and not be wrong for it,,,and how i know is because the are even raceist who will watch cosby and fresh prince and more and laff our asses off and and enjoy with reverence and yet at the same time still be haters to haters hints dont buttheads with buttheads its like magnets turn them both the other way and there is no fight to clash or clang hints when the crouds running your way dont face it head on turn and join the flow and let it carry you instead of trampling you think strong think smart dont bang your head against the wall here,,,,just ignore it be cool know yourself proove yourself wheather your gonna be trashey or cool

Answer 91

Black people use the N word all the time, but white people can't? Expulsion is excessive.

Answer 92

good question. the students should not be expelled, because it is their constitutional right to exercise free speech. if we are punished for exercising a right that Constitution guarantees, we are nullifying Constitution.

Answer 93

I believe it is no different from Hitler's "Beerhall Putsch", and is for the same purpose. Arrest the bastards. Give them any more rope and they WILL lynch somebody.

Answer 94

The First Amendment does not protect you from being expelled.

It also does not protect you from being rock stupid, as these boys were.

Answer 95

Yes, because there is no freedom of speech anymore in the land of the free.

Answer 96

The O.U. incident is less concerning than your reference to "hate speech."

Answer 97

What ever happened to the First Amendment.

Answer 98

Yes.

Answer 99

The first amendment protects them from being charged criminally, but it does not protect them from disciplinary action from the school.

Answer 100

I great with the first amendment right, but you still have to be considered of others.

Answer 101

racist speech in any form is despicable, but I think the first amendment protects idiots, no matter how dumb they are.

Answer 102

No, free speech. If one acts like an irresponsible idiot, we all should know this of him.

Answer 103

yes

Answer 104

I say just expel them all

Answer 105

No, blacks have chanted worse i.e. Ferguson: "kill the white pigs"

Answer 106

Lynch the Bloody urchins...0310/205

Answer 107

Yes.

Answer 108

Yeah they was way out of line.

Answer 109

in a word, yes

Answer 110

No, from a Mississippi black man.

Answer 111

No it is not. The kids are dumb and racist though.

Answer 112

No, because blacks also do it, but not behind closed doors.

Answer 113

They can be expelled, but they should not be prosecuted.

Answer 114

of course let them go to kkk u. if they want a place that shares their believes.

Answer 115

despite what? an a****** exemption clause somewhere?

Answer 116

ys

Answer 117

Not at all

Answer 118

absolutely

Answer 119

https://jlyse.net/?gBQzDBc

Answer 120

yes they should

Answer 121

yeah they can do whatever they want because they waycists

Answer 122

wewew

Answer 123

no...because blacks have done the same and no expulsion...equality..

Answer 124

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLNhTorafSo



No matter where you are there you go.

Answer 125

No way.

Answer 126

blacks,love it or leave it!!

Answer 127

no because blacks are disgusting

Answer 128

good

Answer 129

no

Answer 130

no

Answer 131

no

Answer 132

ya it is

Answer 133

no

Answer 134

please any man that is above 8 inches message me!

Answer 135

hope not

Answer 136

bigger *****

Answer 137

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